Transcript:

Leon Compton: Tasmanian based CEO of Disability Advocacy Network of Australia is deeply experienced in this space. Been following it since the NDIS is birth. Emma Bennison. Good morning to you.

Emma Bennison: Good morning.

Leon Compton: Emma, you gave evidence on day one of the Senate inquiry into these proposed changes. How did you feel as this bill and passed the Senate last night?

Emma Bennison: It was pretty difficult to watch. I think that’s been the prevailing sentiment across our community. We have all worked incredibly hard, to have our voices heard. We’ve had advocates on the ground working incredibly hard to make sure that people with disability could be heard. There were 4500 submissions to the initial Senate inquiry report.

And then there was some, significant numbers of supplementary submissions after that. So, there’s a lot of work that’s been done. There’ve been rallies. There’ve been all sorts of things. And so, you know, while, you know, there have been some amendments, as you pointed out, and some of them are good amendments. The reality is that the major concerns with the bill remain, and many of us are just really gutted and disappointed and anxious about the future for people with disabilities today.

Leon Compton: And we’re talking to you as someone with sort of a lifetime of professional experience in that space. So I want I would like, if you can, to talk to my listener this morning, Emma Bennison, who is an NDIS participant. Who will always even experts struggle, when they’re, you know, sorting the NDIS for themselves or people they love. What would you say, to those people watching this news who are listening in this morning?

Emma Bennison: I would say, it’s understandable that you’re disappointment and that you’re feeling a sense of betrayal and grief. But what I would also say is that you’re not alone. One of the things that’s been, very, very clear to me across this campaign is that the community is more united and more connected than it’s ever been.

And I’ve been doing this for a long time, as he said. And so I think there is great cause for optimism in the sense that, you know, we will continue to hold this government to account. We will continue to work collaboratively with government. But we will also, want to make sure that we are hearing from people with disability, hearing from advocates about the impacts of this bill.

I mean, one of the things that people are really worried about and none of the amendments have, addressed this in any way, shape or form. Is that the foundational supports that are supposed to be, you know, the second last boat in the ocean for people who are moved off the scheme are not yet finalised.

We don’t yet know what they’re going to look like. Now, you know, the minister says, quite fairly that, you know, we’ve got, a couple of, you know, a bit of time to get those right. You know, it would be really great if the government could commit to, not moving anybody off the scheme until we are confident that those supports are in place, because states and territories have said that they won’t be in a position to deliver, like for like services that was clear from their submission to the inquiry. And Queensland hasn’t even yet signed up. So, you know, I think there’s just too much unknown in this for people to have any, to feel any assurance that, you know, they’re going to be supported appropriately.

Leon Compton: 9.36 ABC Hobart, ABC Northern Tasmania. Emma Bennison’s our guest this morning this morning, the CEO of the Disability Advocacy Network of Australia. Emma Bennison, there was a lot of debate about automated decision making. Can you tell me please where that landed?

Emma Bennison: Yeah. The automated decision making issues are really significant. I mean, you’ve got to look at the aged care situation at the moment to see what can occur when automated decision making goes unchecked. So, you know, there are some safeguards in place around automated decision making, but there is still real concerns about how that will work in practice.

And, you know, at its heart, the scheme was always meant to be about voice and control. And, you know, for politicians, it’s really convenient to think that all disabled people are exactly the same. And therefore you can just apply an algorithm and, you know, it will be fine and we’ll all sort of fit into our neat little boxes.

That is not how it works. I often say to people, as a blind person, you know, if you’ve met one blind person, you’ve met one blind person. We’re all incredibly different, which is good. But, you know, so the choice and control element of the scheme remains really important and I think is under threat, from automated decision making and remains to be seen you know, how that will work in practice.

But, you know, the concern is that, you know, if it doesn’t work as intended, then people could have decisions that materially impact their ability to live. And, you know, there is a concern that we will see people die. People think I’m dramatic when I say that, I’m not being dramatic. I’m not a dramatic person, actually. But the reality is that, if people have decisions made about their lives by an algorithm, that are inappropriate and that don’t take into account the human cost, then, you know, people could die.

Leon Compton: And there’ll be people on the NDIS or people listening who love somebody on the NDIS and listening to that this morning and thinking about where to go to talk about it. And what advice do you have? I mean, obviously people can talk, to the person managing their plan if they can get onto that person. But more broadly, advocacy groups like yours, Emma, is that the place for people to go this morning?

Emma Bennison: There are lots of local advocacy organisations that people can talk to. And of course Disability Advocacy Network Australia has a feature on our website where you can find an advocate. So you can certainly do that. I would also recommend, you know, going on to social media. There’s lots of grassroots, you know, social media groups that bring disabled people and our families together to have conversations.

And I actually think that that’s the most important thing that people can do right now is to try to combat some of the isolation, because I think often when these things happen, it can feel very much like, you know, you’re the only one experiencing it. But of course, that’s not the case. The other thing I would really recommend people do is make sure you’ve got a copy of your plan, your current plan. Make sure you understand what’s in it. Make sure that you know what you need and are very clear about that. You know, before you get into a situation where your plan is being reviewed. So yeah, I think there are there are some really significant things that that people can do.

Leon Compton: Emma, there’s so much more to talk about in this space. We’ll have to keep doing it with you and others over the days ahead. Thank you for being part of mornings this morning. Emma Bennison, CEO, Disability Advocacy Network of Australia. The changes to the NDIS passed through Australia’s parliament last night. There were amendments but clearly still concerns for Emma Bennison and the people that she advocates for around Australia.